Wind flags

Nathan P · Post by **Nathan P** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:43 pm

Can anyone fill me in on the rules and regs regarding the use of BRT wind flags or similar flags other than the standard red an yellow ones during f class competition?

johnk · Post by **johnk** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:08 pm

(1) 1.3.39 Unfair Advantage the underlying principle of these Rules is that no competitor or team shall by any means whatsoever gain an advantage, except by shooting skill, the one over the other or others of them, which in the opinion of the Executive Committee is unfair.

(2) Can't see any range officer allowing a competitor forward of the shooting point during the course of a competition.

(3) How would you align them at a height which would be of value and not interfere with other shooters either by their location or the time it would take to set them up?

Nathan P · Post by **Nathan P** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:41 pm

What if there was one flag set up below each target being used on the day that would be visible through the scope while aiming, an they were set up at the beginning of the day, I ask because they were being used in the WA queens last year but when I made a couple of my own and brought them out at my local range here in Tas over last couple of weeks there has been multiple comments made

Nathan P · Post by **Nathan P** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:45 pm

14.1.4 Non-standard flags may be displayed in addition to 14.1.1 and 14.1.2, but they must be of nonstandard colour or clearly be of a non-standard

Brad Y · Post by **Brad Y** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:58 pm

Nath

The WA guys use flags yes, but nobody has disputed them with an RO I dont think. Lots of people have complained about them between themselves. Personally, I feel they advantage those who can read them, and possibly disadvantage those who arent familiar with them. I would like to see them removed myself from queens level competition for the above reason.

Theres alot of things like these flags, delays in ET's, squadding (as mentioned in a recent thread) that need to be standardized across Australia to make it a level playing field for those who wish to compete. Theres nothing wrong at club or even DRA level for things like this to be used with the permission of the RO and match director. But for the sake of state and national titles everything needs to be equal and as fair as we can make it.

Just my opinion.

DaveMc · Post by **DaveMc** » Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:39 am

Nathan,
It certainly was a shock to turn up to WA and see all these "personal wind indicating devices" spread across the course. It is not tolerated anywhere else that I have seen.

Firstly these are generally not "flags" and thus contravene rules 14.1.*

Secondly they definitively give advantage to those who put them out there in two ways. Very few on the course are aware of their wind indicating strengths except the owners and also they are generally setup in and around the lanes of the owners if they know their draw.

This is not Benchrest.....

Malcolm Hill · Post by **Malcolm Hill** » Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:10 am

I can't see how any organising body or R.O. could allow there use under rule 3.3.6.
Regards Malcolm.

Barry Davies · Post by **Barry Davies** » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:12 am

Not much point practising with BR "flags ", as apart from WA you will not see them anywhere else - nor should they be.
It was tried in Vic some years ago ( by a BR shooter ) He actually got to place them in front of where he shot. Lasted for one range and then they were quickly removed.

jcinsa · Post by **jcinsa** » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:13 am

I too was amazed when I went to Swanbourne and saw all those benchrest flags everywhere.

The wording of non standard wind indicators means that they must be flags but non standard colours or size .

Wind wheels are not allowed under ssr's but states may use what they like as long as it is not a advertised prize meet under grading rule competition, same as for club shoots.

The rules state that the flags must be a standard size for wind reading.

John

mike H · Post by **mike H** » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:17 am

Some people have no shame.
Mike

aaronraad · Post by **aaronraad** » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:28 am

It must have been a Queens, otherwise I'm sure one of the passive aggressive types would have plugged the flag with a sighter, accidentally of course.

Nobody's noticed the pin-wheel I have disguised as a dandelion in front of the target yet. I hold my breathe every time they bring out the whipper-sniper.

Post by **AlanF** » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:28 am

I think what this discussion indicates is that the rules need to be more explicit about what is allowed. Until that happens, some ROs will interpret things differently. Swanbourne has a history of being adventurous with its rules.

Nathan P · Post by **Nathan P** » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:39 am

Right o I was just wondering,, cheers

ned kelly · Post by **ned kelly** » Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:01 pm

G'day All,
I think I am the BR shooter that Barry was referring too.
The flags were used for the entirety of the VPRC OPM held at Werribee, they were spread out for all shooters to use if they so desired, and they were moved to each range and set up without any delay to the proceedings.
There were 6 flags, set out evenly at 50yds and 75yds across 6 targets and not in any shooters line (OR my line) of fire.
The storm it created when I asked to get some sort of ruling was enormous.
End result, it wasn't worth the hassle and I decided to prove myself using the 'preferred' rules. Personally, I found it more satisfying if you can be "compliant" and still shoot a competitive score or even win! LOL!
Hate to say it but you are on a road to a flogging, even if you try to be fair to all concerned.
FWIW look up my earlier posts, you will save yourself a LOT of frustration and typing.
Interestingly, the number of shooters adopting nearly all things BR, such as techniques, actions, bullets, scopes, dies rests, bags etc. is amazing but as for BR flags they are in absolute denial!
Good luck from a very interested observer!
Cheerio Ned

Post by **AlanF** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:50 am

ned kelly wrote:...Interestingly, the number of shooters adopting nearly all things BR, such as techniques, actions, bullets, scopes, dies rests, bags etc. is amazing but as for BR flags they are in absolute denial!
Good luck from a very interested observer!...

Ned,

I think you'll have to agree that a plantation of short range BR flags is a very "in your face" departure from the traditional full-bore flags that have been used for years and years. Its hardly surprising that most of our membership thought it was bit cheeky. If F-Class and TR shooters in general saw a need for that sort of flag, then fine, but I haven't seen evidence of that. In fact the two times I've seen them, I reckon they were there because a BR shooter who was accustomed to using them felt disadvantaged without them.

Yes F-Class Open in particular owes a lot to BR for much of its equipment design and techniques, but I can't see how that obliges us in any way to adopt every aspect. We also share a lot of things with TR including shooting in mixed squadding with them, and like them, we put a lot of importance on learning how to read those long red and yellow flags.

Alan