Club ammo any good?

[dee cee]

I'm about to try my hand at Fclass standard again.

Ill be using 'club' ammo until I establish myself. I'm learning so really don't need the hassle or cost of reloading yet.

What sort of accuracy can I expect and I guess I'm after reassurance that its the correct way to step into the sport at this early stage.

Thanks

[aaronraad]

I'm about to try my hand at Fclass standard again.

Ill be using 'club' ammo until I establish myself. I'm learning so really don't need the hassle or cost of reloading yet.

What sort of accuracy can I expect and I guess I'm after reassurance that its the correct way to step into the sport at this early stage.

Thanks

The NRAA loaded target ammunition is excellent...when the rifle is correctly chambered for either the Seirra MK projectile loaded version or the HBC projectile loaded version. With the correct barrel length the 155gr's should stay supersonic out to 1000y (+26"???).

In terms of accuracy, you should get sub-MOA and maybe down to 1/2MOA. Maybe Keith will be able to comment?

[plumbs7]

Hi there , glad to hear you are getting into the sport . I'll put I this way, if I want to win I'll hand load . If it's just for fun or practice and I have Nraa ammo I'll use it !
I the biggest problem is not the accuracy but the extreme spreads and vertical !

So it's great for learning how to wind read and the basics if you don't want to hand load ! IMO!
Good luck and have fun .
Regards GS

[AlanF]

I've seen one or two F-Class shooters who've had very good luck with Winchester factory 308 ammo. Lucky in that it suited their barrel. But the vast majority will do better reloading.

[dee cee]

Thanks for that info people. I'll use the NRAA stuff first up and then look to reload when I'm getting a bit better.

[DannyS]

Cory Lang used NRAA ammo in F Standard at the Tassie Queens this year, came 2nd. His rifle liked it

Cheers
Danny

[williada]

Dee Cee, Winchester have very good quality control with regard bulk quantity manufacture in that they measure powder volume accurately and automatically pull rounds each side of an outlier. They sample test bullet seating and extraction tensions as well as group test in their underground facility. The primers they use are of high quality. The projectiles they use are excellent, with the HBC's having a BC equal to the Bergers. You have nothing to lose by using factory ammo as your skills are developed. You are on the right path to recognise a development of your confidence first to further your ability which will branch out as you can take on wind reading skills and load development as you become ready for it.

Allow me to explain it this way. My wife does not have a clue about load development but she is a top shot and her temperament is such that she does not worry about the ammo and knows I change up the reloads for club shoot experiment. I have been testing crook ammo to find its limits. In the last few months at club level, she has used unbatched HBC's in cases with enlarged primer pockets with Winchester primers at 3, 5, 6, and 7, off the shoulder. The difference being that the gear has been set up correctly for compensation and the tuner has been adjusted. She has shot numerous double possibles and won both the scratch and handicap. Those of us using scopes in open and F/TR were finishing behind her. While she was using Australian components, I tested some Blue Box (British) considering it not to be up to Winchester standard, over the last few weeks. The only time I got the gong was when my wife had to work and could not shoot. But could I say that my rifle once tuned to the factory ammo with a variable tuner outperformed all the other fclass shooters at the club who were using the finest components. While the club shoots are not National championships as that is another league I can reasonably conclude the factory ammunition did not put me to any disadvantage at the club level.

The moral is that the velocity spread can be adjusted for with use of a tuner. You then can concentrate on your wind reading skills and be equal if not better than those with superior gear but with less ability in reading the conditions. It also saves a lot of preparation time. Use your club time for shooting practice not as a major event in itself and the scores will come. Once your gear has been set up through testing, it won't change much but conditions change all the time. That's where the real practice is needed. By all means when a major event occurs pay attention to detail, but base the detail on test results. I think its wiser not to test during competition unless its at club level. Unfortunately club programs are so tight every week becomes a sheep station for some with aggregate this, championship that, pennant etc that little time can be given to discovery learning by experimenting. More time should be given to mentor days and testing where the real business of winning can be seen in a longer time frame and the psychology developed. David.

[Josh Cox]

I have previously done some chrono testing of the factory ammunition, with the HBC projectiles.

In all but one test, the Extreme Spread (ES) of the factory was greater than 50 FPS which IMHO is not real useable for longer ranges.

I hope for an ES less than 10 FPS.

Our club has an ET that measures Time of Flight (TOF) which I believe is far more useable than the chrono data, I will test some and report back.

[dee cee]

Thanks again guys, great info. Thanks for the extensive post too David. Nice of you.

[williada]

Josh, have a look at Tim L's groups he posted on, " re-compensation tuning...sorry", where he said,"Oddly enough, the tightest group has the biggest spread. What fun

Yes, reducing extreme spread is very important but it will not save you if you are not on a node.

[Quick]

Personally I think too many people worry about ES and such. I very rarely use a chrony on my rifle and just tune the load to where it shoots flat and accurate. Ive had a load that had a good ES and SD (ES 5 and SD 2) and didnt group at longs. Now some may say that this is crazy and illogical but since when has a barrel been logical all the time. Find the powder charge and seating depth that your barrel likes and go with that.

If your barrel likes the NRAA ammo and most should shoot it decently then run with it. I havent run any in my current barrels but may give it a shot to see how it groups.

[Josh Cox]

Did a Time of Flight (TOF) test on club ammo.

My TOF using 45 off 2206 with 155 Hybrids, was average of 1193 mS, SD of 5 mS using my little set of digital scales and Lapua brass fired at least a dozen times, annealed two firings ago.

Club ammo, the newer projectiles, average 1350 mS, SD of 13-14 mS.

Shot from different rifles, but the SD does not lie.

Edited to add: shot at 800m

[Barry Davies]

Had occasion to pull 100 rounds of Winchester factory ammo last week.

Loads varied from 46.16 to 47.02 gns 2208

They appeared to be trying for 46.6/46.7 as most were within +/- 0.2 ( 4/10 variation )
However almost 1 gn from top to bottom is a bit excessive -- certainly not something you would want to get at 1000 yds.
At $1-30 per round I would expect something better than this.

[Josh Cox]

Had occasion to pull 100 rounds of Winchester factory ammo last week.

Geez Barry, thrill seeker

[DaveMc]

Thanks Barry - well worth doing. Will be used by many.
Cheers.