Carbon removal

[Tim L]

I didn't want to pinch Howards thread that is moving down the moly line, I know nothing about moly but I seem to have stumbled across a way to get the carbon out. I've posted before explaining that there is nothing that will dissolve carbon, but that's not what you need to do. As long as you are getting to it before it builds up as ceramic, you are aiming to dissolve whatever is bonding it together. Do that, and it comes out on the patch. I am finding that using both Ed's Red and Boretech Carbon remover seems to be pulling the carbon out far more effectively than anything else I've used. Use Boretech C4 until the patches are reasonably clean, then use Eds Red and just see how much more comes out

My current process is to run a bronze brush down the barrel when still warm and follow it with the Boretech as per their instructions, then follow up with Eds Red.
Boretech smells like it's little more than a detergent, (I have found, however, that is separates in the bottle, so if you do use it, give it a shake first). Eds Red is equal parts of ATF, kero, Gum turps and acetone. (They say it won't harm wood or plastic, but acetone is not friendly to some plastics so I take precautions not to get any on the stock.)

It's early days, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

[Matt P]

Hi Tim
Please don't take this the wrong way but do you have a bore scope to really see if these products work ??
I have tried the Boretech C4 and IME is doesn't work any better than than Hoppes, Butches, etc.
I haven't found any chemical "carbon removers" that work to my satisfaction. IMO the best way to remove carbon is to use JB bore paste regularly.
Regards
Matt P

[Josh Cox]

Matt,

Have you tried Forrests Milfoam ? ( or any of the other foams ), there is very little written about it and I only know one shooter that uses it and he swears by it.

I have not been overly impressed with C4.

[Tim L]

Hi Matt,
I have a cheapy USB one, nothing like yours, but I can see.
I agree with you totally. I've used a few cleaners and not really been happy with any. What struck me was how much more carbon comes out after getting cleanish patches with one product. I'm not saying it cleans out every trace, but it certainly gets out a lot more than either product on its own.

I too use paste, but I've not got there with this barrel yet.

Carbon control is probably going to remain a problem that needs attacking with different methods. I doubt there is any solution to the ceramic build up, but I'm hoping that by removing more carbon chemically, I can stretch the paste clean, or do away with it altogether and go ultrasonic.

Like I said, it's early days. I'm just throwing it out there for anyone who's having a problem.

[DaveMc]

Hi Tim
Please don't take this the wrong way but do you have a bore scope to really see if these products work ??
I have tried the Boretech C4 and IME is doesn't work any better than than Hoppes, Butches, etc.
I haven't found any chemical "carbon removers" that work to my satisfaction.

Regards
Matt P

+1 on Matts comments - including the "please don't take this the wrong way".
As a background - I have tried many, many of the supposed carbon cleaners (and claimed "solvents" - you can't dissolve carbon) including some of the "magical foaming" compounds and upper engine cleaners (and foaming upper engine cleaners), "military" grade this and that etc. I have spent many days with several (baked on carbon) barrels and a lineup of all the latest chems - only to be horribly disappointed every time (and have been around this course many times when something new comes out). Grab a borescope guys and take a real look - give it your best cleaning regime for a couple of hundred rounds then borrow a borescope and see how clean the carbon is in the throat and first 5-8 inches. If someone truly finds one that works then show us some proof - get some barrels you have been cleaning for a few hundred rounds (no paste) to Matt, myself, Keith or someone with a decent borescope and knows what they are looking at. The shooting world will rejoice if there is truly a product you can spray, leave and wipeout!
Now on the reverse of this I haven't used all these chemicals on a daily basis (whilst carbon is fresh) so maybe there is some miracle cure --- here's to hoping.

Josh - bring in your barrel and lets take a look - I am interested

[Josh Cox]

Will do Dave, I have only cleaned the barrel once with the foam, so i'll give it a few more before bringing it in.

Here is my first clean, 24 shots from hoppes/bronze brush clean.

Top left to bottom right, let the foam sit for an hour, no brushing. 3 applications in a barrel with about 250 shots through it from new.

[RDavies]

I am certainly no guru on this, but the best way to use Boretech C4 from what I have found is this.
ASAP after you finish shooting, as in, when you get off the line and get your gear off the line, run some wet patches through the barrel to get the powder fouling and loose carbon out. Then straight away give it a bit of a brush back and forth with a good stiff nylon brush in the first 6 inches or so, then let it sit while you go and score, mark etc. Once you have done that, then patch it out and leave Hoppes in the bore to soak. This does not stop carbon fouling , but I think it reduces it slightly. Even with this procedure, I still have to use Iosso or KG in the first 6 inches or so every 2-300 shots.

I had read that Boretech C4 can be left in the bore overnight DONT DO THIS. If you borescope it the next morning, it will have some little rust patches, so just leave it in for the first 30 minutes or so while the barrel is warm.
BTW, I leave my barrels soaking in Hoppes for up to 6 months at a time with no problems

A few club mates have brought around a swag of barrels lately to borescope and they have usually said the barrel has gone off but there cant be any carbon in there because the patches are coming out clean and they clean the barrel every 24 shots. Yep, the patches were clean because the carbon (and lots of it) was still stuck to the barrel. A bit of elbow grease and 15 minutes later, the barrels were clean and after 12-18 shots to settle in, they started to shoot well again

[Howard]

No offense taken at pinching my thread, but I agree with everyone.
(I don't kow what we'd talk about if it wasn't for carbon fouling and barrel cleaning!
I think, from some experience and plain theorising, that you can get fresh carbon out, but once it's hardened and pounded and pressured and scraped into some sort of ceramic like material, then, it's a bugger!
From my high school days, which is over fifty years ago, I think Carbon Tetrachloride will dissolve (or convert?) carbon. It used to be used in fire extinguishers, until it was found to affect the love life of the African Deep Sea Prawn, or some such foolishness.
Maybe the Prof has an opinion on the said chemicals action on carbon. Probably can't get it, and anyway, it'll probably solve all problems by killing you.
Not to be repetative, but this was the root reason for my enquiry about moly. Does it help with carbon deposits?
Howard.

[ecomeat]

Josh,
There are 12 patches in your photo.
Was there a repeat of the process, anywhere between top left and bottom right photos? Or is this 12 patches after a SINGLE (presumably the first) application of the foam ?
Tony

[Josh Cox]

The three left hand patches look wet ?, they were the first patches after the foam soak.

Howard, this appears to be the carbon removal thread where all the hipsters are.............................

[Longranger]

Tried a different carbon removal brew yesterday. Evinrude Johnson Engine Tuner and bronze brush. Seems as good (or better) as anything else out there and cheaper than most bore solvents. Use with care, the skull and crossbones and other warnings indicates some nasty petrochemicals in the mix.

Available at Evinrude outboard dealers. Have yet to try it in my outboard (a Yamaha) .

[DenisA]

Matt and Dave, how often do you guys use paste to remove carbon?

[Matt P]

Matt and Dave, how often do you guys use paste to remove carbon?

Denis
It changes as the barrel has more shots through it for me.
When new every 200 or so but as the barrel ages I will use it more often.
Regards
Matt P

[macguru]

I think its really important to get ALL the paste out before shooting again, so I do a lot of patches of number 9 just to make sure !

[bill]

GOOD day guys
I done a little experiment with a US bore cleaner today IOSSO Its white like tooth paste
I tried it on a clean polish peice of carbon steel
I then tried it on a stainless steel pot
Then a stainless steel table knife blade
The results where all the same BLACK SUBSTANCE on all the 3 white cloth I could not see any abrasion
Just some thing to think about

Bill