Nightforce Scope tracking issues...

[sevenmil]

For fear of being a pest, just wondered if anyone has had issues with their Nightforce BR scopes. Over the past 3-4 months I have been having two issues, one being elevation shots (which I have now finally sorted - projectiles too far into the lands causing pressure deviations, together with oil on the bedding screw), but I have struggled a bit with minor wind and elevation adjustments on my NF BR Scope.

Last Sat I dropped 2 points (118.6) and just couldn't centre the shots in the X ring despite winding up and across 3 times. All the shots continued to group in the same area (which was ok as they were still in the 6 ring) but I should have had a lot more X's. This has happened to me a lot these past few months to the point where I have been too scared to adjust a 4th time (fearing over compensation), so I have simply being aiming off to centre the shots which isn't always a good idea. I know we all do aim off from time to time, but I am talking about just centring shots in fairly light winds.

One of my friends suggested an old trick practiced by a another very experienced top F-Standard shooter, is to wind past the desired click value and then wind back a little less. Example if you want to move up 1/8 elevation, he'd wind up 2/8 and then back 1/8.

Do any of you guys have this challenge and do you practice this?

[jcinsa]

I have the same problem,

Except in my case, I'm just not reading the weather right.

And if it's not that, my load just isn't good enough.

In my experiance my Nightforce Benchrests have never been the cause.

Regards

John

[plumbs7]

For fear of being a pest, just wondered if anyone has had issues with their Nightforce BR scopes. Over the past 3-4 months I have been having two issues, one being elevation shots (which I have now finally sorted - projectiles too far into the lands causing pressure deviations, together with oil on the bedding screw), but I have struggled a bit with minor wind and elevation adjustments on my NF BR Scope.

Last Sat I dropped 2 points (118.6) and just couldn't centre the shots in the X ring despite winding up and across 3 times. All the shots continued to group in the same area (which was ok as they were still in the 6 ring) but I should have had a lot more X's. This has happened to me a lot these past few months to the point where I have been too scared to adjust a 4th time (fearing over compensation), so I have simply being aiming off to centre the shots which isn't always a good idea. I know we all do aim off from time to time, but I am talking about just centring shots in fairly light winds.

One of my friends suggested an old trick practiced by a another very experienced top F-Standard shooter, is to wind past the desired click value and then wind back a little less. Example if you want to move up 1/8 elevation, he'd wind up 2/8 and then back 1/8.

Do any of you guys have this challenge and do you practice this?

Hi Mr Seven Mil, I've broken 2 Nightforce NXS due to cheap mounts . But this was resolved by Nightforce very quickly . I've blamed my night force at the recent Nats for a broken scope . Even took it off and was going to shoot with a borrowed March ( thanks Shane) but it wouldn't clear my barrel. In the end , shoved the Nightforce back on shot the last day with what I thought was a broken scope. In the end I shot ok with it ! So was me ! Still the same scope that I use today , haven't touched it !

I've never had tracking issues with a night force ( I'm a Nightforce fan!). But have only used the NXS .

Also you mentioned it's not good to aim off for too many shots .

I rarely aim centre for elevation and windage , as I use a milirad scope! Trying to dial in choppy conditions will leave u behind them. Just dial in a bracket and go from there! I use to aim centre and dial , but was no good for me ! Regards Graham.

[plumbs7]

Sorry mate , thought of something else. If u r grouping slightly off centre aim opposite to it and you'll be back in the X ring ! Ok catch ya!

[DenisA]

Sevenmil. If it is a problem, it can be easily identified.

Take it to a 100yard range do a box test.
Put an aiming dot on the bottom left of a page. With the scope zerod take a shot. wind up 4 moa and hold the dot, shoot, wind right 4 moa, hold the dot shoot, wind down 4 moa hold the dot shot, wind left 4 moa hold the dot shoot. Repeat the cycle a couple of time and/or try reversing the cycle. You should end up with 4 tight groups.

Any tracking or repeatability issues will be apparent quickly.

[sevenmil]

I am still laughing at jcinsa's comments, seriously that was hysterical I know I am looking for excuses and tend to agree that NF scopes rarely have issues, but I thought I'd check to see if other people really did any issues.

I think I'll do a tracking test as you guys suggest, it's the only way to satisfy the question.

[AlanF]

I have tested a number of scopes that have "let go" using a device that can have several scopes mounted side by side. I take Hor & Vert readings off a grid before and after firings and look for differences between the scopes. I have not yet found a problem with any scope, including a couple of my own that seemed to have been faulty. Scopes do fail, but when they do, its usually very obvious e.g. you can feel a problem when winding the knob, and/or the magnitude of the error is large. You will get errors of precision of course, with things like click values varying through their range, or POI changing with scope magnification, but they can usually be avoided by modifying your technique. And don't forget to adjust parallax at the start of each shoot.

[bartman007]

The NF BR scope is great when it is working! Clarity/positive turret clicks/easy parallax adjustment.

However, I had a scenario where all of a sudden my wind zero was out by around 2 points. And it bound up when winding out to the right. A warranty return to NF and it was all perfect again.

I had a shooter 2 weekends ago, with what I suspected was a faulty NF BR scope. To aid in identifying it had an issue, I got the shooter to AIM OFF instead of winding. I believe this proved the scope had an issue.

He used the scope last weekend at an OPM with VERY Calm conditions, and proved the scope was faulty.

[Brad Y]

Also get other shooters to shoot your rifle and see how they go. Sometimes I believe you can just get "lost" and your left scratching your head and blaming things. Shooting is not all about top notch gear that works brilliantly each time, the human factor has alot of say of how it all performs.

[sevenmil]

My particular concern isn't of a large magnitude, it's just sometimes tricky when it comes to centring shots with fairly minor adjustments. The scope has always been capable moving the point of aim exactly where I wanted, so my X counts were always pretty good. I fact I got the second highest X count in my club championship last year and that was my first year shooting FClass.

Good idea about having someone else shoot the gun, looks like back to the drawing board with more testing…...

[Tetris]

You're Nightforce BR comes with a no questions asked warranty.
I sent mine in for an "elevation" issue and it was ready to pickup in five days.
Shooting with a scope you don't have confidence in, will play with your head.

Cheers
Mark

[Peter L]

For fear of being a pest, just wondered if anyone has had issues with their Nightforce BR scopes. Over the past 3-4 months I have been having two issues, one being elevation shots (which I have now finally sorted - projectiles too far into the lands causing pressure deviations, together with oil on the bedding screw), but I have struggled a bit with minor wind and elevation adjustments on my NF BR Scope.

Last Sat I dropped 2 points (118.6) and just couldn't centre the shots in the X ring despite winding up and across 3 times. All the shots continued to group in the same area (which was ok as they were still in the 6 ring) but I should have had a lot more X's. This has happened to me a lot these past few months to the point where I have been too scared to adjust a 4th time (fearing over compensation), so I have simply being aiming off to centre the shots which isn't always a good idea. I know we all do aim off from time to time, but I am talking about just centring shots in fairly light winds.

One of my friends suggested an old trick practiced by a another very experienced top F-Standard shooter, is to wind past the desired click value and then wind back a little less. Example if you want to move up 1/8 elevation, he'd wind up 2/8 and then back 1/8.

Do any of you guys have this challenge and do you practice this?

[Peter L]

For fear of being a pest, just wondered if anyone has had issues with their Nightforce BR scopes. Over the past 3-4 months I have been having two issues, one being elevation shots (which I have now finally sorted - projectiles too far into the lands causing pressure deviations, together with oil on the bedding screw), but I have struggled a bit with minor wind and elevation adjustments on my NF BR Scope.

Last Sat I dropped 2 points (118.6) and just couldn't centre the shots in the X ring despite winding up and across 3 times. All the shots continued to group in the same area (which was ok as they were still in the 6 ring) but I should have had a lot more X's. This has happened to me a lot these past few months to the point where I have been too scared to adjust a 4th time (fearing over compensation), so I have simply being aiming off to centre the shots which isn't always a good idea. I know we all do aim off from time to time, but I am talking about just centring shots in fairly light winds.

One of my friends suggested an old trick practiced by a another very experienced top F-Standard shooter, is to wind past the desired click value and then wind back a little less. Example if you want to move up 1/8 elevation, he'd wind up 2/8 and then back 1/8.

Do any of you guys have this challenge and do you practice this?

What your friend suggested is correct.Many shooters do that.Another way is to wind the turret all way to the bottom and go up again before shooting.I've got 2 BRs and I don't do any of this and I never had any problems.

[pjifl]

Any tracking error on reversal should be distinctly less than 1/8 minute so you should not have to sneak up from one side only like on a Lathe for example where there is always some slack in the feed threads. That is what the springs are for. I always check this and have never seen a NF Scope with more than 1/16 minute of this problem. Reversing Zoom often changes zero by a tiny amount but again it should be < 1/8 min. If the Graticule is centred to the Zoom tube correctly, there should be almost no change of zero over the entire Zoom range. Errors like this used to be common in older cheap scopes. Especially in cold weather.

From my experience, 99% of modern scope problems are elsewhere. BUT I do know of a very few instances where there is a genuine problem and this always poses a conundrum. I suspect that in many cases manufacturers do their best and return scopes 'fixed' even though they genuinely cannot find any problems. Much simpler to explain to the customer.

I don't like the idea of screwing the turrets fully up and down or L and R very much. If you do, be gentle when you hit top and bottom. Especially if you have on quite a bit of L or R as well when you hit the elevation stops.

Do check that the grub screws are tightened well from Turret Knobs to Shafts. Especially the newer NF Competition scope which has only one grub screw and a very small diameter shaft. I traced an apparent scope problem to this and it was not obvious at all and fooled me at first.

It is easy to check tracking errors. Either mount the scope firmly and watch a distant grid as you adjust knobs, focus, zoom etc. Especially reversals.
Or build a simple collimator. All you need is to mount two Picatinny rails on a solid piece of steel RHS so the scope look into each other.
The 'Target scope' can be poor quality because once set it is left alone during testing. Optical quality can be mediocre because you are looking for position and not clarity and at high magnification even a blurred set of X hairs show position enough to check to better than 1/8 min. The advantage of a collimator is that it can be used indoors at any time and there is no scintillation and mirage to degrade the image. You can do a box test without firing a shot.

BUT recoil may be needed to show some errors. And an intermittent fault is unbelievably hard to find and verify and must drive scope makers batty trying.


Peter Smith.

[Norm]

Take the scope off and check your rail screws.
Very common issue.