A Bartlein "dud" ?

[ecomeat]

A the recent NRAA Queens, I shot a Bartlein barrel that Craig McGowan gave to me for free, to see if I could get it to shoot.
Its original owner had demanded it be replaced almost a year ago, claiming that it just wouldn't shoot. It was a "dud", apparently.
I am told that world class riflemen like Marty Lobert and Dave McNamara seem to think that only one in five barrels, or about twenty percent, will turn out to be good enough to be genuinely "international standard"......or worth taking oversees to compete.  I guess that means that 4 out of 5 are probably not going to be world class barrel, and this barrel was supposedly one of them.
So 7mm.com.au willingly handed over a new 7mm blank as a free swap, in exchange for this "dud" with about 400 rounds on it. Eventually Craig must have been wondering who was OCD enough to see if they could give this barrel a bit of serious attention, and my name must have popped in there somewhere (should I feel insulted ? )
So he got it down to Matt Paroz for me, where it lost an inch or so and was rechambered in 284 Win to fit my BAT action and re-crowned and 29" of it duly arrived in the post.
A bore scope inspection of this barrel before I started revealed that even though it was highly "polished", it still had a lot (make that a LOT ) of hard baked carbon in the first six inches of the throat. It nearly must have been something like JBs Bore Brite used initially, coz even though it was glaringly bright internally through the Hawkeye, it took me three thorough sessions with KG2 abrasive to actually remove the hideous amount of carbon that was baked in there.
Switching with another Paroz chambered 284 barrel, it was just 1/8 MOA low and 1/4 MOA right so I felt good about this one right from the start ! Switches within another 'smiths work have been as far out as 4 MOA, but Matt never fails to impress me with his skills and precision.
Load development was pretty simple..... another 5R Bartlein and my mentor Williada in my corner, and by the time I had done a Williada process....Ladder Test , 140 yd Horizontal Incremental Load test and Free Flight (ie seating depth) test and we pretty much had this one worked out.
Along the way, it won a couple of Club days by 6-8 pts just fire forming new brass with 45.5 gr of AR2208 and approx 2700 fps, looking for a short sharp energy burst as per an Alan Fraser suggestion a couple of years ago to ease the brass into competition.
Took it to a FCWC squad day at 1000 yards, and shot 89-8/90 and 60-7/60 on a day when other shooters were dropping quite a few.
At the first 300 last week at the NRAA Queens, it shot 60-3 and then the gales arrived.  The next day, it won the gold medal  for the 500 yard Range on Saturday morning with 60-8  and didn't lose a single point to vertical for the whole event.
I ended up 4th overall and extremely happy with that outcome !
From the Oxford Dictionary :  a definition of "Dud"
Noun : A thing that fails to work properly, or is otherwise unsatisfactory or worthless
Adjective : Not working or meeting standards ; Faulty
Craig, if you get any more Bartlein "duds" that you are wondering what to do with, please don't hesitate to call me !!
Tony Berry

[Brad Y]

Just goes to show barrels won't shoot when they are full of coal. Well done mate. Did you put a tuner on it too or did it hold good enough without?

[Pommy Chris]

Just goes to show barrels won't shoot when they are full of coal. Well done mate. Did you put a tuner on it too or did it hold good enough without?

You are not wrong. I noticed my groups opening up on the last ranges of the Nationals. My 900 I was line burning even though I ended up with a 60 with 3 and the wheels fell off at 1,000. I came home and tested it at the club at 300 and the group was horrible. I cleaned it and pasted it big time and tried again the clean group was a finger nail size at 300 yards. Note to self with this barrel at least clean every day!! NO matter how good a barrel is if it is full of coal it wont shoot.
Chris

[Josh Cox]

[ insert venomous remark towards Tony HERE, challenging his manhood and suggest that he and the "dud" barrel are a match made in heaven ],,, nah,,,, got nothing

I just purchased my first Bartlein for my TR.

When Farty Marty and Peter Smith ESQ buy them by the dozen, something must be working well.

[LoneRider]

fire forming new brass with 45.5 gr of AR2208 and approx 2700 fps,
Tony Berry

if you dont mind me asking,what amount of 08 do you normally use ?

[ecomeat]

I don't use 2208......,it's too fast for the case/calibre.
2209 and 2213sc are the "go too" Australian powders for a 284 Win, however three or four years ago when all of Australia faced a batch of Lapua 6.5 x 284 cases with troublesome primer pockets, "breaking in cases" became a topic for discussion. Our well travelled Webmaster suggested that I try a light load of a faster powder ......so I did. Seems to work a treat, but I don't know a soul that uses AR2208 for a regular load. It's for an initial firing only.

[AlanF]

Our well travelled Webmaster suggested that I try a light load of a faster powder ......so I did.

Yes everyone, fireform with 2208, and you too can turn a bad barrel into a good one . Seriously, well done to everyone involved for giving it a go with a "condemned to death" barrel. I wonder how the replacement barrel is going?

[Frank Green]

Way to go Tony!!!!!

We see and get barrels back more then you think for reasons like it doesn't shoot etc....Here is a good example of one! Customer called complaining his 6ppc benchrest barrel wouldn't shoot anything better then a .3xx" for groups. I had to listen to him say that last year he was ranked #7 in the country (U.S.). So he sent it in. I couldn't find anything wrong with it. I did notice a scratch on the breech cone nothing horrible but not having the action in hand I couldn't check headspace, bolt clearance etc....so it actually sat in my office for about 2 months as it was bothering me that I couldn't find anything wrong with it and I couldn't bring myself to just throw it in the chip hopper as I would go back and look at it every once in a while. A really good customer of mine who shoots BR and is also a gunsmith and whom I've also shot with called me up and asked about the barrel. I asked him how did he know about it? He said he overheard the guy talking about it at a recent match and was doing nothing but complaining. He said he would be happy to take a look at it and throw it on rifle and try it out. So I sent it off to him. He got it and called with in a day or two. First thing he said...."Did you notice the scratch on the breech cone?". I said yep. Why? He said he installed it on his Panda action (which the barrel was set up for) and the bolt was rubbing/binding on the breech cone. I know that's a accuracy killer and he said yes he agrees. So he cut .005" more clearance for the bolt/barrel. Put it on the gun. Shot it a week later. Called me up and said if I get anymore bad barrels like this to send them his way! He shot it for a full day and it averaged a .150" at a 100 yards. He used the barrel on his gun till it was shot out!

There are more then one just one reason why a barrel won't shoot at times and more then not it has nothing to do with the barrel itself.

Just repaired a barrel yesterday for a customer. Barrel had less then a 100 rounds on it. Complaint? Doesn't shoot. The muzzles crown had such a heavy burr on it and the lands had all sorts of nicks to them at the crown edge as well. We recrowned the barrel and sent it back to the customer to try again.

Thanks for the post Tony!!!!

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

[LoneRider]

i dont suppose you have a "bad" omark 308 barrel ?

[David B]

Rechambering could have corrected a problem or changed the harmonics such as in the bolt touching in Frank Greens post. Pitty it could not be fitted staight into your action....then again might just needed a clean....

[macguru]

Tony, did you try lubricating the bore with stainless steel media ??

May I ask, did that 7mm trueflight 1.9 you bought from me 2 years ago produce results ? I rechambered that pierce action with a 6mm barrel as a dasher and it shot like a cracker ... i know a bit more now but i'm not sure why that 7mm (chambered as a 280AI) would not work for me ....

cheers Andrew

[ecomeat]

Tony, did you try lubricating the bore with stainless steel media ??

May I ask, did that 7mm trueflight 1.9 you bought from me 2 years ago produce results ? I rechambered that pierce action with a 6mm barrel as a dasher and it shot like a cracker ... i know a bit more now but i'm not sure why that 7mm (chambered as a 280AI) would not work for me ....

cheers Andrew

Andrew,
I will ignore the first question
As for the Trueflite.........Matt had to rechamber it for me, still in 280AI, as the thread that fitted your Pierce action wouldn't screw into my BAT, even though they were theoretically the same.
In the end, and after about 400 shots, I gave up on it too. It is quite simply a "Dog"
I know there are plenty of accurate Trueflites out there ....... just look at the results of the big UK F Class events.... but that will be my first and last Trueflite.
It did have a TRUCKLOAD of carbon in it, so I initially thought that that had to be the reason you wanted to lose it, and expected it to be an easy fix. Wrong !! I eventually got it squeaky clean, only to discover that one land has got a couple of "knife edged" ridges running down it, the entire length of the bore.
I tried everything..... Berger 168's, 180 VLD's and 180 Hybrids as well as the 175 gr SMK, jammed and jumped all the way out to 0.120" Jump but everything was ugly. I tried everything from 2700 fps to about 3100 fps but it was all hideous. In the end I simply cut my losses and vowed that I would never touch Trueflite again. I have been spoilt by my Bartlein and Maddco barrels.
My grandfather always said that "Bought experience was the very best kind........as long as you kept the receipts"

[macguru]

Thanks for the info Tony. Sorry to hear it was the barrel but i thought the bedding (no bedding block, soft laminate) was not up to the recoil of the 280. Then later I thought it may be the stresses as it heated. Also, at the time I thought cleaning with #9 was good enough and you did not need to use a bronze brush to remove carbon. Clearly not the case ... Someone told me last year that there were a bunch of trueflights that were not any good , and it changed elevations during a stage in my case.

[ecomeat]

Andrew, here are a couple of photos of the "ridges" mentioned earlier that run down one land on that genuine dud Trueflite barrel
The first one is taken on maximum magnification looking straight down onto the land. The black spots are just a bit of crud on my lens, but the largest, closer one is right on the outside upper edge of the land, where it drops down the 0.006" or so to the flat of the groove.



The next one is a sort of fisheyed view with the Hawkeye lens looking straight down onto the groove this time, and the land/ridges off to the right, starting to go out of focus.....but it shows the ridges from another perspective


The supposed dud Bartlein.....which is actually more of a "hummer".... performed again for me yesterday at our Beaudesert RC OPM which was 2 x 15 shot matches @ 500 yds. I had 89-11 and 90-9 with it to finish with 179-20 and win the No.1 badge for F Open.
Next stop : QRA Queens

[mike H]

For those that can see anything meaningful in those two pictures,congratulations on your ability,I think I am a failure in barrel reading.
Mike.